tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-802872038675042201.post417311983373524624..comments2023-11-02T01:16:01.158-07:00Comments on Fiche Focal ...: Inequality in Ireland (circa 1740)Tomaltachhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06472288290882778889noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-802872038675042201.post-54855308647476814422007-08-11T03:31:00.000-07:002007-08-11T03:31:00.000-07:00BTW, it is a very good post, I missed mentioning t...BTW, it is a very good post, I missed mentioning that earlier.<BR/><BR/>And, Yes, Kilcash was written in Irish.<BR/><BR/><BR/>But the old/Norman English did not see themselves as Irish, but the English did not view them as anything other than Irish. In much the same way when we think Americans, rarely if ever we think Sioux, Mohawk or Huron. The view from London for the most part did not see the Gaelic. Until it became a issue. The highlands of Scotland were viewed in much the same way, where the clearances had a very real political as well as an economic reason d'etre.Vincehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09442327549417743472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-802872038675042201.post-23572708259693133202007-08-10T10:11:00.000-07:002007-08-10T10:11:00.000-07:00Catholics - Irish and 'Old' English. The role and...Catholics - Irish and 'Old' English. The role and ultimate fate of the Old English is fascinating. I haven't studied the subject in depth but Foster gives a reasonably comprehensive picture of how the post-Kinsale dispensation affected them. In some ways the Old English were the perfect example of the difficulties experienced by a hybrid ethnicity/group - they weren't Irish, yet they hadn't much in common with the New Protestant English either. Their form of Catholicisim was very different from that practiced by the Gael. The Old English adapted a more continental variation - taking on board measures introduced in the counter reformation, such as the Tridentine Mass. The Gael on the other hand clung to a more medieval version of the faith - and one which still allowed for a degree of pre-Christian belief. <BR/><BR/>It seems the Old English often swung from alliance with Gaelic chieftans (those that retained a semblance of power after Kinsale) to a more conformist position with the New English regime in Dublin (and which had arrived in huge numbers as planters). They had to play it by ear depending on whether the new colonizing class was focusing on imposing its religious based program for acquiring land for themselves or pursuing their vision of how society should be structured and ruled. I suppose for the New English, the Old could be seen as potential allies in the war to completely subdue Gaeldom, and at those times when this seemed complete the Old English could become the targets also owing to their religion.<BR/><BR/>I think there is a new book out now on the old English around the middle of the 17th Century. I can remember neither the title nor the author but I must look out for it.<BR/><BR/>I hadn't seen Kilcash before but I found it on the web. Very good. The page I found had a version in Irish. I presume it was originall written in Irish.Tomaltachhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06472288290882778889noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-802872038675042201.post-61725527855048178382007-08-07T04:56:00.000-07:002007-08-07T04:56:00.000-07:00Kilcash, the first few words.Kilcash, the first few words.Vincehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09442327549417743472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-802872038675042201.post-26498165134109946442007-08-06T12:08:00.000-07:002007-08-06T12:08:00.000-07:00Remember, that there is a difference between the C...Remember, that there is a difference between the Catholic Irish and Catholics in Ireland. A little can of worms that Steve Ellis opened with glee.<BR/><BR/>'What will we do without timber', was not all that worried about the blokes that sculpted Ahenny.Vincehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09442327549417743472noreply@blogger.com